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	<title>Mind of Dan Comments</title>
	
	<link>http://mind.ofdan.ca</link>
	<description>It's turtles all the way down</description>
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		<title>Comment on Canada’s creationism problem by Why atheists need to be political</title>
		<link>http://feeds.ofdan.ca/~r/mindofdancomments/~3/0VU6pySe9R8/</link>
		<dc:creator>Why atheists need to be political</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Aug 2010 09:05:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scruffydan.com/blog/?p=2128#comment-73278</guid>
		<description>[...] really worry you, perhaps you should recall that our Minister of State for Science is a chiropractor who can’t tell you how old the Earth is or how all the animals got here (or maybe he [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] really worry you, perhaps you should recall that our Minister of State for Science is a chiropractor who can&#8217;t tell you how old the Earth is or how all the animals got here (or maybe he [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on It’s not about saving the planet by Episode 9: Show notes — Irregular Climate</title>
		<link>http://feeds.ofdan.ca/~r/mindofdancomments/~3/ohLwusg1S18/</link>
		<dc:creator>Episode 9: Show notes — Irregular Climate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Aug 2010 01:33:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mind.ofdan.ca/?p=3743#comment-73223</guid>
		<description>[...] It’s not about saving the planet The phrase “Save the Planet” was never meant to be taken literally. This hunk of rock that we live on is incredibly old and resilient, and despite what we may do on it’s surface the planet itself is in no danger. People who campaign under the save the planet banner by in large understand that the planet will be fine regardless of what humans do. Only a handful of wackos would disagree, and all of them should be simply ignored. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] It’s not about saving the planet The phrase “Save the Planet” was never meant to be taken literally. This hunk of rock that we live on is incredibly old and resilient, and despite what we may do on it’s surface the planet itself is in no danger. People who campaign under the save the planet banner by in large understand that the planet will be fine regardless of what humans do. Only a handful of wackos would disagree, and all of them should be simply ignored. [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on The climate consensus visualized, part 2 by canbanjo</title>
		<link>http://feeds.ofdan.ca/~r/mindofdancomments/~3/ocdfxF-7CLc/</link>
		<dc:creator>canbanjo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Jul 2010 08:13:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mind.ofdan.ca/?p=3748#comment-73217</guid>
		<description>here is a good infographic showing the miss-match between science consensus and public perception, perpetuated by the media:

http://renegadeconservatoryguy.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/Climate-Change-Infographic1.pdf</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>here is a good infographic showing the miss-match between science consensus and public perception, perpetuated by the media:</p>
<p><a href="http://renegadeconservatoryguy.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/Climate-Change-Infographic1.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://renegadeconservatoryguy.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/Climate-Change-Infographic1.pdf</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on The Laughlin contradiction by Grim</title>
		<link>http://feeds.ofdan.ca/~r/mindofdancomments/~3/EN-Iza3KCUc/</link>
		<dc:creator>Grim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jul 2010 04:59:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mind.ofdan.ca/?p=3764#comment-73198</guid>
		<description>A triple case of "not only ... but also ...".

Not only was Laughlin being gormlessly literal-minded (aka 'dumb') with his simplistic 'Don't have to Save the Planet' claim, but also he was being visibly self-contradictory - though whether gullibly or disingenuously so is left as an exercise for the reader.

And further, the contradiction was in his admission that not only is climate forced by long term drivers, but also it can be forced by short term drivers.  Not only that, but also these different categories of drivers are not mutually exclusive.

As fine an example of epistemic closure as one could wish to see in a day's reading.  But don't feel too bad about not picking up on his self-contradiction; it's really hard when someone is being that thick to keep diligently foraging through the pigshit in the hope of finding a pearl or two somewhere.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A triple case of &#8220;not only &#8230; but also &#8230;&#8221;.</p>
<p>Not only was Laughlin being gormlessly literal-minded (aka &#8216;dumb&#8217;) with his simplistic &#8216;Don&#8217;t have to Save the Planet&#8217; claim, but also he was being visibly self-contradictory &#8211; though whether gullibly or disingenuously so is left as an exercise for the reader.</p>
<p>And further, the contradiction was in his admission that not only is climate forced by long term drivers, but also it can be forced by short term drivers.  Not only that, but also these different categories of drivers are not mutually exclusive.</p>
<p>As fine an example of epistemic closure as one could wish to see in a day&#8217;s reading.  But don&#8217;t feel too bad about not picking up on his self-contradiction; it&#8217;s really hard when someone is being that thick to keep diligently foraging through the pigshit in the hope of finding a pearl or two somewhere.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Denier hypocrisy, turning a white-list black by Timothy Chase</title>
		<link>http://feeds.ofdan.ca/~r/mindofdancomments/~3/H1lDJRqJL7E/</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy Chase</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jul 2010 19:15:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mind.ofdan.ca/?p=3761#comment-73188</guid>
		<description>I told my grandmother once that, "Sometimes the cruelest thing on can do is name what another is doing."  Well, at least they find it cruel because it requires them to look at what they are doing and it tears away their pretenses so that people can actually see them for what they are.  But in my view this is justice.

That is a large part of what the paper is about:  pointing that while the denialists are making up lists of their own in order to create the appearance that the scientific community is divided, in fact those lists help to demonstrate just how united the scientific community is.  And when those lists are used to create the appearance that the experts are divided the paper uses the lists to demonstrate the reality that virtually all of the actual experts are greatly united behind the consensus.

It takes the illusion that they have created and uses it to illuminate the reality they seek to hide and thereby shows both the illusion and those who worked to create it for what they are.
*
At a certain level this is exactly what I see your post as doing in highlighting the hypocrisy of their use of the term "black list."  That the use of lists, even if they were identical lists would be OK only so long as they are the ones that are doing it.  And further, that the paper itself did not make any of the names public.  That was something done by the themselves -- seemingly to themselves.

Now of course part of what what would appear to motivate them in calling it a blacklist is that with such spin that they might turn the paper to their advantage.  Once again they can claim that they are being persecuted.  They can claim that given such extreme persecution many scientists simply don't speak out because of the potential consequences -- whatever those might be.

And instead of letting the conversation regarding the paper revolve around what it actually says about how united the scientific community and what that suggests about the evidence they can distract audiences with their allusions to presumed persecution.  But I think there is a deeper reason.

Essentially, they don't what serious studies done of how united or divided the community is.  They want to make that a kind of third rail for those who wish to demonstrate just how united the scientific community is behind the mainstream consensus view.  They want to make this sort of thing taboo so that they can continue to claim without serious challenge that great division exists.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I told my grandmother once that, &#8220;Sometimes the cruelest thing on can do is name what another is doing.&#8221;  Well, at least they find it cruel because it requires them to look at what they are doing and it tears away their pretenses so that people can actually see them for what they are.  But in my view this is justice.</p>
<p>That is a large part of what the paper is about:  pointing that while the denialists are making up lists of their own in order to create the appearance that the scientific community is divided, in fact those lists help to demonstrate just how united the scientific community is.  And when those lists are used to create the appearance that the experts are divided the paper uses the lists to demonstrate the reality that virtually all of the actual experts are greatly united behind the consensus.</p>
<p>It takes the illusion that they have created and uses it to illuminate the reality they seek to hide and thereby shows both the illusion and those who worked to create it for what they are.<br />
*<br />
At a certain level this is exactly what I see your post as doing in highlighting the hypocrisy of their use of the term &#8220;black list.&#8221;  That the use of lists, even if they were identical lists would be OK only so long as they are the ones that are doing it.  And further, that the paper itself did not make any of the names public.  That was something done by the themselves &#8212; seemingly to themselves.</p>
<p>Now of course part of what what would appear to motivate them in calling it a blacklist is that with such spin that they might turn the paper to their advantage.  Once again they can claim that they are being persecuted.  They can claim that given such extreme persecution many scientists simply don&#8217;t speak out because of the potential consequences &#8212; whatever those might be.</p>
<p>And instead of letting the conversation regarding the paper revolve around what it actually says about how united the scientific community and what that suggests about the evidence they can distract audiences with their allusions to presumed persecution.  But I think there is a deeper reason.</p>
<p>Essentially, they don&#8217;t what serious studies done of how united or divided the community is.  They want to make that a kind of third rail for those who wish to demonstrate just how united the scientific community is behind the mainstream consensus view.  They want to make this sort of thing taboo so that they can continue to claim without serious challenge that great division exists.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Denier hypocrisy, turning a white-list black by Anna Haynes</title>
		<link>http://feeds.ofdan.ca/~r/mindofdancomments/~3/79B6XV1wIQ4/</link>
		<dc:creator>Anna Haynes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jul 2010 16:14:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mind.ofdan.ca/?p=3761#comment-73186</guid>
		<description>Dan, you're judging these fellows by the standard of intellectual honesty; this isn't the right standard.

They're defense attorneys, using the best cards they can come up with.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dan, you&#8217;re judging these fellows by the standard of intellectual honesty; this isn&#8217;t the right standard.</p>
<p>They&#8217;re defense attorneys, using the best cards they can come up with.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>Comment on Journalismgate by Episode 8: Show notes — Irregular Climate</title>
		<link>http://feeds.ofdan.ca/~r/mindofdancomments/~3/24Wb3ZbLR5w/</link>
		<dc:creator>Episode 8: Show notes — Irregular Climate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Jul 2010 05:55:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mind.ofdan.ca/?p=3732#comment-73173</guid>
		<description>[...] More info [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] More info [...]</p>
<img src="http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/mindofdancomments/~4/24Wb3ZbLR5w" height="1" width="1"/>]]></content:encoded>
	<feedburner:origLink>http://mind.ofdan.ca/?p=3732#comment-73173</feedburner:origLink></item>
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		<title>Comment on Prawngate: Monckton tries to censor critics by Episode 8: Show notes — Irregular Climate</title>
		<link>http://feeds.ofdan.ca/~r/mindofdancomments/~3/qX_TTuPLuiI/</link>
		<dc:creator>Episode 8: Show notes — Irregular Climate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Jul 2010 05:55:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mind.ofdan.ca/?p=3716#comment-73172</guid>
		<description>[...] Prawngate: Monckton tries to censor critics [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Prawngate: Monckton tries to censor critics [...]</p>
<img src="http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/mindofdancomments/~4/qX_TTuPLuiI" height="1" width="1"/>]]></content:encoded>
	<feedburner:origLink>http://mind.ofdan.ca/?p=3716#comment-73172</feedburner:origLink></item>
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		<title>Comment on Climategate: The scandal that wasn’t, Part 3 by Episode 8: Show notes — Irregular Climate</title>
		<link>http://feeds.ofdan.ca/~r/mindofdancomments/~3/kccYn_44gJU/</link>
		<dc:creator>Episode 8: Show notes — Irregular Climate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Jul 2010 05:54:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mind.ofdan.ca/?p=3701#comment-73171</guid>
		<description>[...] the aftermath of the stolen CRU emails known as climategate, in which as several independent investigations found nothing nefarious, a larger scandal was revealed. Many people suspected that this scandal was [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the aftermath of the stolen CRU emails known as climategate, in which as several independent investigations found nothing nefarious, a larger scandal was revealed. Many people suspected that this scandal was [...]</p>
<img src="http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/mindofdancomments/~4/kccYn_44gJU" height="1" width="1"/>]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>Comment on Comments, peer-review and censorship by Episode 7: Show notes — Irregular Climate</title>
		<link>http://feeds.ofdan.ca/~r/mindofdancomments/~3/jzy-Di3_ZAM/</link>
		<dc:creator>Episode 7: Show notes — Irregular Climate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Jul 2010 05:40:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mind.ofdan.ca/?p=3405#comment-73170</guid>
		<description>[...] More info, and here [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] More info, and here [...]</p>
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